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Thread: Decided to make my own sand rail/ car.

          
   
   
  1. #1
    BYT Member Silent Wolf's Avatar
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    Post Decided to make my own sand rail/ car.

    Well, I am very jelous of Dirtfreak15's sand car, and don't want to spend $200 on just a frame. I decided to build my own. I have done models before of sand rail for fun, but they wern't good enough for a rc car. I just need some pointers and tips. I am thinking to use 1/8" solid steel tubing, would that be good enough? and also, is it posible to weld it using wire feed? or should I use gas?

    Thanks in advance! Any advise will help!

  2. #2
    BYT Member Silent Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Decided to make my own sand rail/ car.

    Question, where is a good place to buy a rear wing? Or should I build one?

  3. #3
    BYT Member qaart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Decided to make my own sand rail/ car.

    wire is fine the gas would prob be better

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    BYT Member vw_thing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Decided to make my own sand rail/ car.

    1/8in solid rod is quite strong for this application, but it will weigh a lot. Depends on your goal and how much motor you use. Most people use 3/16in brake line tubing, or 5/16 if more strength is needed. 1/8 solid will also be very expensive compared, so consider that too.

    For joining it.. There is no reason you can't electric weld this stuff. Oxy-fuel welding can be done easily, but takes a careful hand and you need to use the smallest nozzle you can get. That 1/8in rod quickly becomes your filler metal. Brazing/braze-welding is more popular, and there isn't as much chance of melting your work piece. It should be plenty strong either way, with welding being maybe a little better. Won't be very noticeable in practical use.

    If you go electric, I'd recommend shielded if at all possible. You could possibly do this with .025 (or similar) flux core, but it won't be as pretty and burn through will be much quicker. I should have some time tomorrow to give it a try and let you know how it works.

    [edit] Build your wing if you are going for this kind of project. Trust me, you'll come up with any number of other things to build yourself for it. It is addicting.

  5. #5
    Bronze Level BYT Member Zane's Avatar
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    Default Re: Decided to make my own sand rail/ car.

    I don't know anything about the cage making questions... But, a good thing to do for the wing would be to make your own. If you just shape a metal peace like dirtfreak's old wing, it would be strong enough to withstand hits, but still have to looks that the plastic wings don't have...
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    BYT Member pbmaxx64's Avatar
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    Default Re: Decided to make my own sand rail/ car.

    This will be a good build. I love sand rails
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  7. #7
    BYT Member Silent Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Decided to make my own sand rail/ car.

    Ya I also love sand rails, I have more experience brazing than wire, as my dads welder, and my grandpa taught me how to. I will be going to the hobby shop and hardware store in the next few days looking at tubing. Hollow tubing but still some what thick is probably going to be the hand of choice. It is going to probably going to be a 1/8th scale motor, not sure yet. I might make it a 1/10 scale but a little longer.

    This is what I did for a project when I first learned how to braze about 4 years ago.






  8. #8
    BYT Member Silent Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Decided to make my own sand rail/ car.

    I know its not all that good, but when I was that age I was really happy

    I built my go kart off this, that was the point of making it.

  9. #9
    BYT Member Silent Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Decided to make my own sand rail/ car.

    Quote Originally Posted by vw_thing View Post
    1/8in solid rod is quite strong for this application, but it will weigh a lot. Depends on your goal and how much motor you use. Most people use 3/16in brake line tubing, or 5/16 if more strength is needed. 1/8 solid will also be very expensive compared, so consider that too.

    For joining it.. There is no reason you can't electric weld this stuff. Oxy-fuel welding can be done easily, but takes a careful hand and you need to use the smallest nozzle you can get. That 1/8in rod quickly becomes your filler metal. Brazing/braze-welding is more popular, and there isn't as much chance of melting your work piece. It should be plenty strong either way, with welding being maybe a little better. Won't be very noticeable in practical use.

    If you go electric, I'd recommend shielded if at all possible. You could possibly do this with .025 (or similar) flux core, but it won't be as pretty and burn through will be much quicker. I should have some time tomorrow to give it a try and let you know how it works.

    [edit] Build your wing if you are going for this kind of project. Trust me, you'll come up with any number of other things to build yourself for it. It is addicting.

    You get the today to try it?

  10. #10
    BYT Member vw_thing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Decided to make my own sand rail/ car.

    Sorry, was busy with other stuff today... I should have some time free tomorrow.

    To tide you over, here is a joint I brazed with 3/16in brakeline and bare bronze rod for testing (clamp in vice and smack with hammer). Note how the steel is tearing, the bronze is completely unaffected. Properly done it would have torn farther from the joint, but I didn't prep the metal at all.

  11. #11
    BYT Member Silent Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Decided to make my own sand rail/ car.

    Quote Originally Posted by vw_thing View Post
    Sorry, was busy with other stuff today... I should have some time free tomorrow.

    To tide you over, here is a joint I brazed with 3/16in brakeline and bare bronze rod for testing (clamp in vice and smack with hammer). Note how the steel is tearing, the bronze is completely unaffected. Properly done it would have torn farther from the joint, but I didn't prep the metal at all.
    So what are you saying with this? not to use hallow tubing?

  12. #12
    Gold Level BYT Member ROBO5's Avatar
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    Default Re: Decided to make my own sand rail/ car.

    Sorry to jump in here? I have some brazing in the past. The metal to be brazed needs to be cleaned down. Correct amount of heat and penitration. It takes practice. Clean/flux/practice.





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  13. #13
    BYT Member vw_thing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Decided to make my own sand rail/ car.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Wolf View Post
    So what are you saying with this? not to use hallow tubing?
    Not at all, that tube is plenty strong for a 1/10 chassis, and for a 1/8 with a little extra reinforcement. What I was pointing out was the strength of a brazed joint. This tubing is actually very rigid when put in chassis form with the usual triangulation. You would have to go up to at least 3/8in steel rod to resist hammer blows meant to destroy the material (which is what I was trying to do here).

    ROBO5 is quite right. Preparation and finish work makes all the difference.

  14. #14
    BYT Member Silent Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Decided to make my own sand rail/ car.

    So, I am getting ideas off this guy, just going to have shock mounts and better place for servo.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9EODJO3pLA

  15. #15
    BYT Member vw_thing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Decided to make my own sand rail/ car.

    K.. Got to play with the MIG for a few minutes and weld this up. It looks ugly, I dropped the shielding gas pressure too much for the first two or three spots, then noticed the mistake... The joint is at least as strong as the base metals. Welder is a Lincoln Weldpak 140, .025 wire, "C" voltage, and "2" wire speed (settings for 22-24 gauge steel). Standard 3/16in brake tubing.


    I'll see if I can improve on that, but I'd call it good for a first test. The biggest problem is keeping the wire in your puddle. A slight twitch can knock your arc loose. Holding it too long will melt the tubing all the way through. Just some things to keep in mind..

    And here is a pic of my sandrail concept for inspiration. My first tuber attempt. Loosely based off of a Berrien Warrior. I designed it for a VW-style torsion bar suspension at all four corners, but couldn't make the little pieces required for the design. I'll finish it some day...

  16. #16
    BYT Member Silent Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Decided to make my own sand rail/ car.

    Nice! Where do you get this brake cable? I it very strong? Also, you brazed that frame right? I would need to go to my dads shop to use a mig welder... I have a flux welder though, not as good.

  17. #17
    BYT Member vw_thing's Avatar
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    Default Re: Decided to make my own sand rail/ car.

    Just about any auto parts store should carry at least the 3/16 brakeline, maybe the 5/16 also. That frame wasn't brazed, I used a propane torch and plumbing solder (before I got the oxy-acetylene rig). Turned out ok, just more fragile than brazing and harder to work with because it melted so quickly.

    Flux may or may not be able to weld down to this size, you would have to check the welder. Might take a little more cleanup, but requires less preparation.

  18. #18
    BYT Member Silent Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Decided to make my own sand rail/ car.

    Quote Originally Posted by vw_thing View Post
    Just about any auto parts store should carry at least the 3/16 brakeline, maybe the 5/16 also. That frame wasn't brazed, I used a propane torch and plumbing solder (before I got the oxy-acetylene rig). Turned out ok, just more fragile than brazing and harder to work with because it melted so quickly.

    Flux may or may not be able to weld down to this size, you would have to check the welder. Might take a little more cleanup, but requires less preparation.

    Ya, I will do testing monday since I am going out of town. 3/16 s going to be my goal, if not I will try to find the smallest possible. Thanks!

  19. #19
    BYT Member Silent Wolf's Avatar
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    Default Re: Decided to make my own sand rail/ car.

    Ok, did some testing and got some good/ bad results... Got a question, Should I use a 1/8 scale motor/ esc. I will be running this strictly very loose sand and also very nice paddles. It is going to be around 1:9 scale I guess... Im going to make it longer than a 1/10th scale.

  20. #20
    Gold Level BYT Member B4power's Avatar
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    Default Re: Decided to make my own sand rail/ car.

    Yes, you should run a 1/8 th scale motor/esc because you are going to run it in sand. The sand will create a resistance so if you get a 1/10th esc/motor everything is going to overheat.

    Plus, with a 1/8 th scale esc/motor you can gear it higher so that will give more speed.
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